Ep.1: Boundaries and Mental Health of Founders with Michael Ceely

What causes burnout? What are some patterns we play at work?

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Welcome to Episode 1 of our Tech Minds Unwind Series!

Join Michael Ceely, MFT, and me, a licensed therapist with experience in athletics, tech, and therapy, as he shares valuable insights on workplace burnout and boundaries for business owners. In this episode of Tech Minds Unwind, Michael discusses common signs of burnout and provides practical tools to help you maintain a healthy work-life balance. Drawing from his diverse career background and client experiences, Michael offers unique perspectives on how to implement these takeaways in your everyday life.

Don't miss this opportunity to learn from an expert and transform your approach to work and well-being!

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Chapters:
00:00 - 1:10 - Introduction with Michael Ceely
1:11 - 4:18 - 3 Careers: Athletics, Tech, and now a Therapist
4:19 - 6:57 - Michael's Therapist
6:58 - 9:42 - Founder Men: Taking action for your Mental Health
9:42 - 12:47 - Using Sports Analogies in Business
12:47 - 18:03 - Routines for Techies
18:05 - 22:37 - Childhood patterns playout in the workplace
22:38 - 26:44 - Tools to work with
26:45 - 29:24 - 101 insights
29:25 - 33:59 - End Note

ENTIRE TRANSCRIPT

(00:00) Vidhi: Hello everyone to our Tech Minds Unwind series. The First of its Kinds on the Mental Balance, tech Mind Unwinds aims to provide insights into common mental health concerns by having conversations with therapists, licensed professionals, and experts. Layer of these concerns each day in their safe spaces.

(00:19) Additionally, we'll discuss actionable tools and takeaways that can help you in your life while you're working away with your tech gadget. In this episode, we'll be joined by Michael Ceely. Michael spends most of his time supporting men who are founders and business owners from the Bay Area and has been doing so for the past several years.

(00:38) Working with age groups ranging from 25 to 60. So, hello Michael. I'm so glad to have you here. Thank you for Michael Ceely: joining us . Vidhi pleasure, pleasure to be here. I'm really excited about talking with you today. I love the concept of your podcast. I think it's really gonna help a lot of people.

(00:56) Vidhi: Thank you. So, yeah, let's dive in. Tell us about your career as an athlete. Michael Ceely: Yeah, I've always been really active as a kid. I was into all kinds of different sports. I'm just competitive by nature. And when I was about 12 years old, I discovered bicycle racing. I had no idea that it existed as a sport and sort of combined the speed athleticism strategy is kind of like, like a chess game on wheels.

(01:24) And I just totally got hooked. And so, I basically traveled around the country all as a, as a teenager. Didn't really focus on my my scholastics very much. Just sort of did tons of racing and decided when I graduated high school, not to go to college and become a professional bike racer. So that was a big decision.

(01:46) I pursued that and did that to about age 24, 25. And probably got a little burned out. Could have, could have used a coach or, or a therapist at that time. Mm-hmm. But but basically, yeah, I was about 24, 25, decided to Okay, get practical, go to school. Attended uc, Berkeley decided I wanted to be a teacher.

(02:07) Did that for a couple years. Absolutely loved it. The pay was not so great. However, and at the time, this is around maybe about a year, 2000 or so the tech industry, as you know, was booming. Mm-hmm. Especially in the Bay Area. And a friend of mine was working in tech and said, Hey, why don't you come over to tech? But it, during that time, you know, to answer your question athletics was always, has always been really just throughout my life, a big part of my life.

(02:35) And there's a lot of stuff that you can apply from athletics and the discipline of athletics to to the business world. So that's a little backstory on I can tell you a lot more about bike racing, but yeah that, that's kind of how I get it. Got into it and then transitioned into working in tech.

(02:54) And then after working in tech for a couple years, I decided I really want, wanted to help people. In that industry. And then I became a, a counselor. . And I've been doing that. I've been doing that since 2016. So, so Vidhi: you've worked in tech, you've been a teacher, and then now you are a therapist, so you've kind of jumped through three careers and you've always been an athlete.

(03:14) So there's a ton going on out here, which is amazing. I'm, I'm sure all of this helps you collectively to who you are as a person today and how you show up in a therapy room as well. Michael Ceely: It does, you know, there's, there's again there's a lot of stuff from athletics, especially the, the personal discipline which you can really apply to the business world.

(03:36) Mm-hmm. And if you're used to that at a young age, it kind of it's kind of second nature. So I, I try to give my clients a lot of just real practical things they can do to structure their day in a way where they take care of themselves and recharge and, and actually at prescribe exercise as well, because, That's a very natural antidepressant and anti-anxiety if you do some exercise.

(03:59) Vidhi: I totally agree. So how did you transition to becoming a therapist? What made you want to do it and how has it been going for you so Michael Ceely: far? Right. You know, I think the, the seed was planted for me at a, at a really early age when I was about 15 years old. I was bike racing a lot. And at the same time, my parents were going through a divorce and it was a pretty tough time.

(04:24) I was getting like D's and F's in school. I was kind of rebellious and so my parents sent me to therapy to kind of fix me. And oftentimes that doesn't work with a teenager. But fortunately I had a really good therapist, this guy named Gary, and he just was this real down to earth guy. Really kind of challenged me as well.

(04:45) Was sort of like a tough love, kind of a, a f almost like a father figure in a lot of ways. Mm-hmm. And so, That really helped me kind of straighten out my life and got the fringe benefit was it helped my athletic performance a lot as well. Oh, I had that great experience for probably about a year and a half, and from an early age I knew that therapy worked.

(05:08) If you get a good match, it really does work. Really can be very empowering And I noticed certain patterns. In my life, which was I would really be enthusiastic and sometimes overwork myself. And that would lead to burnout. And that happened a couple of times, and that happened really in the, in the tech world.

(05:29) I got, was at a job, I was working, you know, till 10:00 PM at night, you know my boss would get takeout for the whole team and just working like crazy. And I just, I just kind of burned out and then I got fascinated in A lot of workplace dynamics and hierarchies in psychology, how systems work, and decided to that I wanted to be a therapist, you know, hearkening back to when I was 15.

(05:58) It was like, Hey, this guy helped me. I'm having problems with, with burnout. How can I help other people? And so went to San Francisco State University. I got my degree in counseling and just never looked back. Like it's just been, I love what I do. It's, it's so gratifying to see someone's kind of puzzle that they're trying to work out.

(06:18) Mm-hmm. And, and helping them see like the bigger picture and, and then helping them just really understand what all the moves they need to make. To straighten things out, have less stress and have a better Vidhi: life. Yeah. Well, thank you for sharing that. That was a very heartfelt story from your childhood and how you walked through divorce.

(06:36) So if we had to group the type of people you see, who would those be? Michael Ceely: Yeah, mostly it is men who are, have , their business owners, or they work in tech and they're very growth oriented. They're fairly competitive. Oftentimes they are athletes or former athletes, and they come to me usually with this probably two big problems I see a lot, which are boundaries.

(06:57) With other people and just distress in general. So I bring up boundaries because especially in the workplace, there's a lot, of things we could talk about how hierarchies and boundaries and roles work together and the stress comes typically from stepping outside of your role or having boundaries with people that maybe might not respect your boundaries or push you or you take on other people's work.

(07:25) You're a people pleaser. And you sort of go outside of your zone . Outside of really kind of your role as maybe a teammate. And that's done unconsciously, oftentimes. And even as a leader, as a founder you can micromanage people. You can feel, and you don't even do it maliciously sometimes it just happens.

(07:44) So I see a lot of men who are just stressed out because they're kind of trying to take on too much. Stepping out of maybe their role and really don't understand how the good, healthy boundaries with people are. Vidhi: So what would be the signs for someone who's a founder for them to understand? Oh, I'm taking up way too much than I'm supposed to Michael Ceely: here.

(08:08) Yeah. The resentment is a, is a big one. Mm-hmm. Just feeling that one of your employees or you know, business partner, whatever is, not doing what they're quote unquote supposed to be doing. Mm-hmm. So that's kinda a temperature gauge. If you're feeling any resentment, there's something there that you really need to look at.

(08:27) The other one would probably be not respecting yourself in terms of your, what we call self-care. In the, in the therapy industry. Are you really cheating yourself on sleep? Are you skipping meals? Are you not exercising at all? .

(08:45) Like, certainly there's times when you have to burn the midnight oil, but if you find yourself not respecting yourself on the basic physical level, that's, that's a sign that there's something wrong. You need to maybe hire people or you need to. It is not sustainable, so. Okay. Vidhi: So let's talk a bit more about how you use your athletic career and therapy stuff, and how do you help male founders? Michael Ceely: Well, it's, there's really good, I would, I would say sports and, and business kind of mirror each other.

(09:12) They're, they're both pretty competitive. They both involve a lot of hard work, a lot of discipline. Teamwork as well. And , so working with, say, like a founder or leader, it, especially if they have played sports before mm-hmm. It's, they're much easier to work with. Got it. Okay. They but you don't have to necessarily have done sports or currently be doing sports.

(09:37) It's helping and off make a lot of a team enal like sports analogies, especially in the, you know, the Bay Area. We've got some great teams. We've got the Golden State Warriors basketball team. Mm-hmm. For example. So of oftentimes men who are founders will, will resonate with the sports metaphors and analogies.

(09:56) So if you have a particular position on a basketball team or a football team mm-hmm. You're not going to step into your teammate's role. Right. You're just not gonna do it. Like in basketball, we call them being a ball hog. So someone who doesn't pass the ball and just really wants to have all the glory for himself mm-hmm.

(10:15) That can ultimately, that's not gonna help the team. Yeah. And then also looking at coaches. So there's winning coaches who just, they'll go to another team and the team will just start winning. Mm-hmm. With the same players. They'll leave a team and the team starts losing with the same players.

(10:36) So I bring that up in working with men in, in tech and, and founders is, is look at, at leadership and look at some of these coaches in some of the sports and what they do. And if you look at what they do, you can totally translate that to the business world. Usually those leaders are, are basically the, the buck stops here, like I'm in charge.

(10:58) So not in an egotistical way, but just knowing that that's the role. Because if you let everyone else on the team argue about it and figuring out you're not going to be, you're gonna be drifting off course. So the, you know, really winning coaches are, are very decisive. They're executives and they're also really flexible and they wanna learn things too.

(11:21) Vidhi: Every sportsperson has a regime and things that they follow to make sure that they're focused. So I believe all of these male founders who are probably high achieving adults would be relating to that aspect as well. Do you, do you have a take on that? Michael Ceely: Routines I think are, are very important.

(11:42) And really it starts with I hate to say the word self-care. Yeah. So one of the big routines that I use with a lot of my clients is your, your morning routine. What do you do in the morning? Do you wake up late and are you hurried and you're slamming coffee and you're not eating breakfast? Like that's not.

(12:03) You, it may give you the illusion that you're getting more done and, and using a lot more of your time, but you're gonna be working less efficiently throughout the day. Cuz perception's not reality necessarily. Mm-hmm. So I, I have really have my clients have a really solid morning routine where they're doing something like, and we'll test out different routines so that they get their best day.

(12:27) Like, what's your best day? And your best day might be, I get up and I meditate. Your best day might be that you really energize and amp yourself up. Like I do a lot of exercise really vigorously. And I take, then I take it like a cold shower. So it kind of depends on what's gonna yield or what's gonna give you your best day.

(12:48) Yeah. But it's al there's some universal things too. It's mainly getting up a little earlier than you typically do, so you don't have a rushed hurried morning. And other routine. Yeah. Other routines would be, again, this sounds so basic, but just nighttime routine. Mm-hmm. So that you're able to slow down your brain.

(13:10) You're not doing a lot of screen time and tasks past a certain hour. And again, sometimes you do have to burn the midnight oil, but if you're burning the midnight oil all the time, there's a structural problem there that's not sustainable. Mm-hmm. So yeah, again, there's very, very simple, but the routines are like a morning and an evening routine so that you're.

(13:31) Like, if you're running a business, you are like an athlete. You are performing throughout the day and you need a lot of energy. Mm-hmm. And you need your, your brain to be working correctly. And if you don't have enough sleep, you're actually not thinking at your best. Yeah. So you wanna be treating your, your business life, whether you're an employee or whether you're a leader.

(13:53) You wanna be treating like a, like an athletic. Workout every, every day cuz it's pretty intense. Mm-hmm. And you want to be, you want to be on your game. So the, the, the routines are, are really just the basic biological things. Like get your brain chemistry right through exercise and sleep. So yeah.

(14:10) And, and it's, it's funny how many everyone knows that and they say, yeah, I know. I know. But then, then they don't practice it. So I, I get people to really make it almost like a religious practice to just take care of themselves. Guilty, Vidhi: but Michael Ceely: Yeah. Yeah. Well, hey, me too. You know, like I, I find myself like drifting off and then I, you know, I catch myself.

(14:31) But yeah. Yeah, Vidhi: no, I think you brought up a perfect point because founders, business owners are, people in tech usually think that time is money, and so, Every moment that they have. Every second that they have, they're turning, they're working, they're on the screen. Yeah. But like you pointed out, it's, it's not reality.

(14:49) You have to keep yourself in check so that you can perform efficiently at all. Exactly. Michael Ceely: Exactly. Yeah. And you know, also, I tell people to think about like playing like the long game. So that if every day you're putting out fires and you're, you know, stressed out and doing all these little tasks thinking about where do you wanna be in 2, 3, 4, 5 years and look at it that way.

(15:15) Hmm. Are you making progress as opposed to are you doing all these little tasks? And another technique I, I tell my clients is labeling a task or an activity during the day. Mm-hmm. In, in order of urgency and, and making it just really kind of binary. Like is it an emergency? Hmm. Like think about a fire, like lit, like a literal fire.

(15:41) Is there a fire inside the building? Hmm. And you, and only you can go and put it out. Right. And then the other one would be, is it actually possible to, to do tomorrow or do later? . So, so that if something comes up, you in your mind's eye, you can think of the words emer, like emergency running across the screen of your mind.

(16:02) And or like, do later. And what, what's interesting about this sort of labeling technique is that people will find that I've been treating all of my leaders as an emergency and stressing out and stepping out of my role. And really it could have waited. So that if you label it kind of binary like that, then that it really helps you not put stuff off, but realize that you don't have to take care of the latest, the, the next shiny little object that's coming up.

(16:37) They're, they're, you gotta prioritize it. Hmm. Vidhi: Yeah. , great points. So what would be the common patterns that you say that you noticed in all of these folks here? Michael Ceely: So if you studied systems theory, there's this thing called homeostasis, which is similar in, in, in biological organisms, is that any, any kind of a system wants to seek some sort of a balance so the patterns that I see are different personalities.

(17:08) This especially occurs if the leadership is weak or if the leadership is not really doing the job of being a leader. Mm. Is that almost like, so if you think about a dysfunctional family. So if you think about a classic example, unfortunate example is, say like a alcoholic father. Mm-hmm. Who is functional, who is able to go to work, able to provide.

(17:34) But then certain family members will cover up the secret or take up the slack and step out of their role, step out and step out of their boundaries to compensate for dad's behavior. And then dad's behavior keeps going. No one really puts pressure on him. And then you have what's called a dysfunctional system.

(17:55) Mm-hmm. Meaning it functions but not in, in a healthy way. And I see this in some organizations, and it's not malicious. It's often very unconscious. Mm. Based on our previous family roles that we've learned. We can take those into the workplace. We can even take that with us as we form or found a company.

(18:15) And if you, depending on your sibling order, you may have been the peacemaker. For example, you may have been the person who was dad's favorite. You may have been like, there's all these roles in the family that are sort of paradigms for us, and we can bring those into the workplace and not really be conscious of what our assigned roles and boundaries are within that, within that structure.

(18:42) And we play them out unconsciously. And we, it leads to a lot of stress because we don't, we don't really understand what's going on, you know, and mm-hmm. Vidhi: Okay. And, and what would you call healthy if someone has to notice and be like, oh, my leadership is not that healthy, my leadership is healthy.

(19:01) How would you be able to differentiate mm-hmm. Between the two? Michael Ceely: Sure. It would be the, for example if, if you find the, the message you're getting from leadership, Doesn't really feel authentic. Mm-hmm. Or if, say after a leadership meeting, you have people kind of gossiping or like, I think everyone knows when they hear a speech or something, if it's actually genuine or not.

(19:31) Yeah. Like there's a difference between platitudes and there's, there's buzzword going around called toxic optimism. . Yeah, the, you can, you know, a, a bs kind of speech when you hear it, right? Yeah. And, you know, an authentic one, you kind of feel it in your body. Like, that feels right, like this person is telling the truth and not hiding things and, and has a strong vision.

(19:57) And my vision is actually aligned with, with this person's vision. Mm-hmm. Yeah. So that would be, you know, strong leadership, weak leadership is, You know, the lack of that, and that's manifested in say, like some gossiping just not a real genuine feeling. Mm-hmm. You know, some passive aggressive behavior, things like that.

(20:19) It's com almost like the children and the family are acting out. Mm-hmm. Because the, the, the leader, the parent is, is not strong enough. Got it. And and I don't mean this in like an authoritarian kind of way, but what's in. There's something called authoritative parenting where like ultimately the parent's in charge and is a benevolent, strong leader.

(20:42) Vidhi: Hmm. Got it. Okay. No, those are very nice examples of comparing your childhood family dynamo to how you act out. Yeah. Today and how you need to be aware about the roles you played and what you're supposed to be doing now, and making sure that your leadership or your parents are supportive as you expect them to be.

(21:01) And make sure you ensure somewhere in your gut. If you're not able to feel it, you realize that and do something about it. Mm-hmm. Yeah. All right. Okay. So. Let's go more into how all of these things that play out at work might be affecting these male founders and their lives. Does it play out in their interpersonal dynamics at home on their personal wellbeing? Michael Ceely: Yeah.

(21:30) Well, yes it does. It does play out. It does affect, and I, think a couple of signs so that, let's say that you know Founder, leader goes home and, and he is, he or she is, they're grumpy, right? Mm-hmm. So the family can kind of give some feedback, like, like, what's going on? Like, why if you're taking this out on us, that means there's something, something wrong at work.

(21:58) Conversely, if it's, if it's, if there's a healthy functioning founder or leader they're gonna go home and, and not. And not really bring the, the work with them. And what I mean by that is like there's a difference between psychologically bringing your work home with you mm-hmm. And maybe answering a couple of emails after dinner, right? Mm-hmm.

(22:23) That, that's the difference that, that bringing home psychologically means that you're still in your mind, you're, you're at work. And that means that that's probably like an unsustainable kind of routine that you have and you need to change that. And then sometimes it's just having the, the self-discipline to turn, to turn it off.

(22:44) Because if your mind is really going and you're really creative and you're competitive and you're working hard, you, it's hard for you sometimes to, to shift gears and turn off that switch. Yeah. It almost feels like losing control. So that I, I tell, tell people I work with, let's have an actual like time set.

(23:05) Where you're sh literally like shifting a gear and you're slowing down your brain, you're doing, you're in a different modality, and that's gotta be like a set hour, probably at max, like, you know, 7:00 PM or something like that. Mm-hmm. And, and it's, it takes practice. So it, it could be, and, and often like a ritual or a routine, You can set up to trigger your, your, your brain to kind of slow down.

(23:33) And for a lot of people it's, it's like, ah, I journal, or I do a meditation, or there's something I do at a certain hour. It could be dimming the lights in the house. It could be turning your screens off or putting your phone away. Mm-hmm. Something sort of triggers you that now it's time to wind down.

(23:55) So yeah. You know, it, it's tricky. Yeah. It's tricky because in, in that business world and it's, it's so competitive and it's actually, it's really fun too. It's like you're, you're, it's like this project, like I wanna do really well during the day, but just like an athlete, you need, your resting time is just as important as your game time.

(24:17) Mm-hmm. So that you wanna be recharging. You know, like the, the analogy of a, a cell phone, like if you don't recharge it and you're at 10% starting the day Yeah. Not gonna be a good day. Yeah. So you, you gotta respect the physical realities of your human body and, and recharge Vidhi: day to day. Yeah.

(24:35) It, it's like you wake up in the morning, you spring up, and then in, by the evening, you like conserve your energy and get all of it in and so that you can do the same blooming back again the next day. Okay. Michael Ceely: Yeah, I mean, it's, it's the way the solar system works, right? So yeah.

(24:51) It's where the sun rises. It's like I don't know if you're gonna fight a couple billion years of, of, of nature, like you, you think you might be able to, but you, you can't. You gotta, you gotta sleep at night, you gotta, yeah. Go, gotta go with that rhythm in that cycle. Yeah. Yeah. Vidhi: It's, it's like you said it, we all first subconsciously know it, but the way social media has made us, and we need some screen time on.

(25:12) Tv, on the phone, on the iPad, and then it just keeps going. So in the end, if you had to give like two or three takeaways, what advice would you be giving to a founder who's listening Michael Ceely: right now? Yeah. I think this would be for male founders and just really female founders, like really anybody.

(25:33) Mm-hmm. The advice, the advice I would give is Respect, like respect yourself, number one. Mm-hmm. This goes to, you know, your, your biology, your self care life is more than just business. It really is. Like, if, you know, there's the sort of the cliche of like the, the, the deathbed analogy. Like, you're, you're really old and you're laying there in your deathbed, do you want a bunch of money, stacks of money around you or you know, trophies and accolades, or do you want.

(26:07) Like the people that are important in your life being there. And ultimately it's like what, what matters is, is the people who are in your life are you enjoying, like, at the end of your life, you're remembering all these, these great memories of, of with being with people or being on vacation or doing fun things, and certainly some victories in your, in your business as well.

(26:29) But the main thing is just like respecting yourself. And there's more to life than, than just the business. And I think that's really the, the, like, the number one takeaway, a couple others would be knowing that, that everything, everything's basically temporary. I don't wanna get too philosophical here, but, but why not, you know? Yeah.

(26:54) It's like ready yeah, like, like, like your business or. Or your sport or whatever in intense endeavor that you're doing like that, or if you're an artist or, or anything where you're being really creative. It, it is, it is temporary and there's a time for doing it and a time for, for not doing it.

(27:15) Mm-hmm. And I, I think that just understanding that like There's businesses that have been around for a long time, but there's businesses that we, that we thought were gonna last forever that aren't around anymore. So I'm not talking like, Hey, you're gonna fail. But it's more just like, again, there's more to life than your business.

(27:35) You know? Play hard, have fun. Yeah. Make money, be competitive. All of that stuff is, is fine, but, but ultimately knowing that it is temporary and the rest of your life and the people in it are. Are really what matters. So Vidhi: Awesome. Let's go into the burnout piece. So all of these people get burnt out.

(27:58) How do you help them cope with so much burnout? Michael Ceely: Yeah, yeah. It's all still see people if they're feel there's kind of phases of burnout. I mean, the, the. On, on the one, one side, there's like these little signs or of burnout. You like a little bit of resentment. Mm-hmm. Or you're not taking care of yourself.

(28:20) And then we can dial that all the way over to here where someone is feeling a lot of anxiety and not even sleeping well. Mm-hmm. And so it's really physically they're having really almost like an anxiety disorder. Mm-hmm. Or feeling depressed because they're, they're not they're not seeing results.

(28:37) So I want to catch people on the start of burnout. Mm-hmm. But sometimes people will come to me and they're like, Hey, I'm like almost totally burned out. I wanna sell my business. I want to cash in, or I want to quit, you know, quit my tech job. So that they're at that point of like, I, I just want to, I want to quit.

(28:54) I wanna go work for, you know, I don't know some company that's gonna be easy. Like, yeah. So if I catch 'em early, it is, it's obviously easier. Let, let's go with someone like maybe I'm gonna catch who's right at the edge of, of. You know, maybe quitting the business or something like that.

(29:12) Mm-hmm. Is number one. I asked them like, how much time does your business have, like cash? How, how long can you survive? Mm-hmm. Let's say if you have your own company and just getting some, some data and facts. I said, well, you know, I, I can do pay, make payroll for the next month. Okay. Okay, good.

(29:31) So the first thing I want you to do is take a break, even though it doesn't feel like you should. You need to, you need to chill out and just first like, recharge. Then what are some really bold actions you can take to, to address the burnout? Mm-hmm. Because burnout is caused by something. Right? So then we, we would identify the action items to, to get rid of the burnout.

(29:55) Mm-hmm. So the source of it could be like, again, you're, you're taking on things, you're saying yes all the time, so you need to stop doing that. It could also be the, yeah, maybe the leadership is, is not he or weak. Maybe you need to leave that job. Mm-hmm. Just because you're burned out doesn't mean you need to keep going with, with that business or that company.

(30:16) Sometimes you just need to have that honest conversation, like, is this a, a sustainable model? But it's, it's really having a conversation with a client of what are all the causes of the burnout and identifying those and then developing like an, an. An action plan step by step of how are we going to deal with each one of these, these problems that are causing the burnout.

(30:42) And then, like I said too, sometimes you just need a, a mini vacation depending on how urgent the situation is. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Vidhi: Yeah, yeah. Well, this was amazing. If someone who's listening to this really relates to you and needs to get therapy from you, where can they reach out to you? What's the best place? Michael Ceely: Yeah, sure.

(31:04) So fortunately my last name is, is in pretty unique spelling, so if you just Google my name. Yeah. All my stuff's gonna come up. Yeah. So Michael Ceely is spelled C two e l y and you'll see, especially if you're in the, the Bay area, you, you search for my name, my therapy practice is gonna come up.

(31:24) And then I also do I have a mindset coaching program that I work just specifically with athletes. And that's michael Ceely.com. So those are the, the ways to, to find me. Awesome. Vidhi: Okay. And to close this out, do you have any questions for me? Michael Ceely: I don't have any questions, but I, I am just really impressed that you're starting this and I think it's a wonderful thing.

(31:48) It's a really a niche that's really not carved out, at least that I haven't seen in terms of the podcast. Mm-hmm. Specifically with where you are in Silicon Valley providing a podcast dedicated to people who are there focusing on mental health. I think it's, it's really needed way overdue and I think you're gonna help a lot of people, so, Vidhi: Thank you, Michael, for, for such an insightful conversation

Warning: For information purposes only. Does not constitute clinical advice. Consult your local medical authority for advice. If you or someone you know needs help immediately, you should take one of the following actions:- call 9-8-8 in the United States or your country's emergency number- call the Lifeline at 1-800-273 TALK (8255) in the United States or a global crisis hotlines- text START to 741-741 in the United States - go to your nearest hospital emergency room

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